Despite everything we've heard from the media and scientists saying that Covid didn't leak from a Chinese lab, it seems governments secretly believe that it did.

How else do you explain the deterioration of relationships between western governments and China since Covid?

Some will say 'Well it's not to do with Covid but the Uyghurs or Hong Kong, or Taiwan - but those issues were all going before Covid and no one seemed to care.

The Biden admin has had plenty of time to review the intelligence - haven't heard anyone saying 'Poor old China - being blamed for something they clearly didn't do - let's give them a big hug and get back to the cozy relationship we had before.'

Instead we're on war footing.

The only thing that has changed in the relationship dynamic is Covid. Given the vast majority of scientists say it definitely didn't leak from a lab then why the breakdown in the relationship?

Because behind closed doors, governments don't believe the scientists. Nor do an ever-increasing percentage of the public. What we're experiencing is a non-verbalized shift in opinion.

I'd love to see an opinion poll asking how people think Covid originated. Dan posted one several months ago saying it was already as high as 40% believing it escaped from a lab. What's the figure now?

Curiously, there are no 2021 polls asking that question. All i could find was one done in Russia where 2 out of 3 think it was from a lab.

Excellent points. I've also noticed over the last few months an increase in stories and stated opinions in the mainstream media about the possibility that the virus escaped from a lab. It seems that it's becoming more acceptable professionally to question the coordinated WHO, CDC, and Chinese take on COVID. I think all of the below stories, some of which I haven't read yet, are all from this year:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/we-still-dont-know-the-origins-of-th...

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/exclusive-classified-study-found-covid-19-could-have...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/who-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/...

https://www.axios.com/wuhan-lab-coronavirus-cdc-director-c599cf7b-9e30-4314-909b-a9bdac...

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/983156340/theory-that-covid-came-from-a-chinese-lab-take...

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/opinion/2021/03/22/why-covid-lab-leak-theory-wuhan-sh...

I came across this absurd quote (in bold at end of excerpt) from the aritcle WHO report leaves unsettled ‘lab-leak’ theory on origins of covid pandemic

Officially, the Biden administration is open to the possibility of a lab leak. A State Department document, published five days before Trump left office, and which has not been retracted, alleged that “several researchers” at the lab became sick in the fall of 2019 with covid-like symptoms, before the first identified case of the disease, and claimed that the lab “has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.”

Versions of the lab-leak theory imagine that an infected worker may have unknowingly passed the virus to others in Wuhan or that an infected animal may have escaped or been sold.

Lab officials have said they possessed no samples of the virus, SARS-Cov-2. And Shi Zhengli, a renowned coronavirus researcher at the lab, has said none of the staff were infected and that the Chinese military has no connection to the institute.

It's statements like that that destroy any credibility the Chinese might have had regardind COVID. To think that a lab such as that would have no connection to the military is laughable.

Here's another one:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/03/26/1021263/bat-covid-coronavirus-cause-origin-...

Again, what strikes me is that a lot of these articles are from very reputable sources, and they are coming out more frequently. This one from MIT Tech Review just came out a little over a week ago. A common thread in a lot of these articles is that the WHO mission was essentially a failure with regards to discovering the origin of the virus. Many of the articles also mention how the WHO team was given essentially zero meaningful access to the lab.

It's encouraging to see some logical debate and critical analysis at least starting to happen.

Here are a couple more recent articles from respected sources that refer to a possibility of a lab leak in their titles. I haven't read these yet -- just noting that the message these headlines send.

Lab Leak: A Scientific Debate Mired in Politics — and Unresolved from Medscape

Did Covid-19 Come From A Lab? Most Likely Not, But The Jury’s Still Out from Forbes

I'll try to actually read them over my lunch break.

The simplest, most logical explanation is, and always has been, a lab leak. We're now seeing an up-welling of this commonsense conclusion from society that's leaving scientists perched precariously in their ivory towers having staunchly defended totalitarianism.

The question is why, using the public's money, have the scientific community been running interference for the CCP to bury the truth? That's the opposite of what they're supposed to be doing.

I hope they're held to account - 'criminal negligence' is the kindest thing i can say about their performance.

And yeah, the idea that China's primary bio-defense lab operates completely free of a totalitarian government's control... Sure, right - if that's the level of argument they're presenting then it's no wonder the tide is turning against them.

And where are the polls? Why have pollsters suddenly gone shy of asking the greatest question of all time?

The anthrax lab-escape from Fort Detrick precipitated an explosion in bio-defense funding as well as Gain-of-Function research. There's a direct lineage to the type of research conducted by Western/Chinese scientists at WIV.

There were critics at the time - this Mother Jones article from 2004 is eerily prescient in terms of predicting the situation we find ourselves in today.

Mother Jones:(A) U.S. Army medical scientist in Maryland has been seeking to bring back to life key parts of the Spanish flu.

Ed Hammond, director of the Sunshine Project: If [the researcher] worked in a Chinese, Russian, or Iranian laboratory, his work might well be seen as the ‘smoking gun’ of a bio-warfare program.

MJ: With poor oversight, government-funded scientists could actually be paving the way for the next generation of killer germs—and given the explosion of research, there is no way to keep track of what is being done.

Ken Alibek, Soviet defector from bioweapons program: We are playing games with fire. It is kind of a Pandora’s box. As soon as you open it, there is no way of putting it back in.

The whole article is fascinating if you have a chance to read.

Report: CHINESE scientists probed weaponising coronaviruses five years before the Covid pandemic. The Chinese language paper, titled The Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons, outlines the Chinese military’s plans with regards to bioweapons.

The document lists some of China’s top public health figures among the 18 authors – including the former deputy director of China’s Bureau of Epidemic Prevention, Li Feng.

The Paper: (SARS presents) a new era of genetic weapons. (It can be) artificially manipulated into an emerging human ­disease virus, then weaponised and unleashed in a way never seen before.

Following developments in other scientific fields, there have been major advances in the delivery of biological agents. For example, the new-found ability to freeze-dry micro-organisms has made it possible to store biological agents and aerosolise them during attacks.

The title is interesting - Unnatural Origin of SARS. Since Covid, i've begun to wonder if SARS-1 was also a lab-escape as the official explanations don't stack up.

The reports i've read say the paper was obtained from the US State Dept, saying it was leaked, but it's not clear if it was the state department that leaked it, or it was leaked to the state department.

If leaked from, then that confirms our suspicion that the US government already knows Covid was a lab-escape - now they're subtly trying to reverse the nonsense we've been told by scientists, while still saving their faces.

This is from Feb 7, 2020.

ABC: On Wednesday, a local health commission official in Hubei described the outbreak as not just a disaster, but a "man-made" one, quoting conversations with doctors in Wuhan.

The post received 340,000 likes on the Twitter-like platform Weibo before disappearing.

It spread further in private groups on WeChat before being censored.

It wasn't just censored from China, but the entire collective of the world's mainstream media, including the one above that reported this.

The concerted effort to suppress any suggestion that Covid was a lab-leak and scream conspiracy theorist at those who did is the most disturbing aspect of Covid - in a high-class list of disturbing aspects.

With weird behaviour, you've got to look at the pecuniary interests. Who benefits out of this co-ordinated, aggressive action?

In this case it's the CCP.

On the surface that seems inexplicable. Why have the networks from CNN to Fox to The Guardian to all of them, knowingly spread misinformation to support the CCP?

But if you switch CCP to Totalitarianism it makes more sense. If you switch Totalitarianism to Centralized power, it makes perfect sense. Global organizations like centralizing power - the more the better.

The media instinctively doesn't like things that may lead people to question this gathering up of power model. Their mantra, which is exactly the same as the CCP's btw, is: Listen to the Experts. Then do what you're told. Or else...

We've entered full-on 'rats jumping ship' season now. Every day we have more 'leading experts' (who all failed to lead when it mattered) admitting that a lab-escape may have been possible after all.

In the last couple of weeks we've had Ralph Baric - who actually worked at WIV doing GoF experiments - saying he suspects a lab leak.

Tedros triple back-flipping with pike to say perhaps the CCP weren't being wonderfully "open and transparent" as he'd insisted many times - and maybe a lab-leak was possible.

Even Fauci, who'd been one of the strongest supporters of the CCP narrative, saying the evidence "is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated" - is now saying it's possible.

Then we have the western media organizations that had been screaming 'conspiracy theorist' at people trying to present information that the CCP should not be trusted - one by one they are trying to shift their ground - without ever acknowledging their gross culpability.

I'm not a vindictive person - although the level of professional misconduct that we've seen from the experts and the media amounts to criminal negligence of the highest magnitude (resulting in millions of deaths) - i don't need to see people go to jail - some of them should - but we can show them mercy - on a few conditions.

• 1. They must resign/be removed from their highly-paid positions.
  
• 2. They must publicly admit their mistakes and explain whether it was due to astonishing stupidity or corruption.
  
• 3. Give back any money they received while propagating the CCP's version of events

If they accept the above, then we can clear the decks and hold an independent investigation into (a) how the culture within the scientific/media community became so corrupted and (b) how it can be rectified.

If they can't, then face prosecution. Some of the behaviour we've seen verges on treason.

One thing that bothers me the most about all this is the arrogance of the media. They do a 180 without any discussion of why they didn't more enthusiastically explore this possibility from the beginning. It also sends the message that, OK, now it's permissible, all you little peons, to openly question whether the virus escaped from a lab.

Whereas a month ago any individual who raised this question was labeled a conspiracy theorist nut, now they can be considered well informed; that's OK. It's condescending bullshit.

One thing that bothers me the most about all this is the arrogance of the media. They do a 180 without any discussion of why they didn't more enthusiastically explore this possibility from the beginning. It also sends the message that, OK, now it's permissible, all you little peons, to openly question whether the virus escaped from a lab.

Whereas a month ago any individual who raised this question was labeled a conspiracy theorist nut, now they can be considered well informed; that's OK. It's condescending bullshit.

Exactly. On one hand i'm glad at least the truth, which was painfully obvious from the beginning, is coming out.

On the other hand it's infuriating to see the media's slimy manoeuvring - having vilified anyone who suggested it previously, they now act like they've uncovered the story - with no credit for those who did the work - or acknowledgement of their own efforts to cover it up.

All to be expected of course.

Then we've got all these highly paid experts - some of who were just stupid - some of whom knowingly lied. None of whom will be held to account by the media.

Wow, the rats keep coming! It's getting to plague proportions.

The ABC, a public-funded media orgnaization, was one of Australia's staunchest supporters of the CCP's version of Covid's origin. It steadfastly refused to report concerns regarding CCP's no lab-leak assertion and vilified anyone who raised questions.

They are still adamantly refusing to investigate the mountain of evidence suggesting a lab-leak but have quietly back-tracked on their insistence it was "definitely not" a lab-leak.

ABC journalist Dr Norman Swan: It's on the outer bounds of possibility, but really so unlikely that you could say pretty definitely that it's not the case.

Now we have this from Swan: So there are increasing signs that the institute of virology may well be the source.

That's another lie to cover up all the other lies that you told us. There is no new evidence! The evidence is exactly the same as it was a year ago.

The only vaguely recent thing is the US intelligence report from Jan 2021 saying lab workers were hospitalized with flu-like symptoms. Even that's four months old.

There has gotta be a clear-out of these organizations. You can't be taking public money and then deliberately using that money to spread misinformation to support the CCP - then expect nothing will happen when you're caught.

They will say the same thing that all corrupt power wielders say when they're caught in the act: 'Well, now's not the time to focus on the past. We will learn from our mistakes moving forward and become even better leaders in the future.'

No. Fuck off. These people must be held accountable and fired. They should go to prison for what they've done, but at the very least they cannot be allowed to carry on blithely as if nothing happened.

Facebook, one of the fattest rats of them all, has joined the WIV ship jumping Olympics.

Facebook: In light of ongoing investigations into the origin of COVID-19 and in consultation with public health experts, we will no longer remove the claim that COVID-19 is man-made from our apps.

We’re continuing to work with health experts to keep pace with the evolving nature of the pandemic and regularly update our policies as new facts and trends emerge.

"New facts and trends" - the same old bullshit line the others are using. Did you all have a Zoom call to get your slippery, slimy messaging aligned?

Again: there is no new evidence. The cornerstones of the evidence have been there for 12 months. One important bit came to light five months ago. Sane citizens were trying to alert you to it - but you kept banning them from your platforms and vilifying them.

The only "new facts and trends" emerging are the high dive triple back flips with pike from the fat rats as they flee the CCP's luxury ship. Big tech, big-media, big-science, big politics, big-everything have now realized they're not going to get away with their whopping lies/power grab after all.

Looked like you might there for a while - you did have every big-base covered. In that totalitarian-like environment it's very hard for the truth to get oxygen - even i was getting pessimistic.

But citizens kept the fire flickering. Almost every bit of research that shows Covid was a lab-leak was uncovered by concerned citizens free-of-charge. (including this group: DRASTIC)

None of it was uncovered from any of those receiving billions in funding from WHO or any country's CDC. They suppressed it. What does that tell you about the health of the system?

SCORING - Facebook

Type of Dive: Running backwards triple back flip with pike

Degree of Difficulty: (had banned users mentioning Covid was man-made): 10

Aerial Dexterity: (contortions excellent but marred by wardrobe malfunction): 7.5

Splash on Entry: Quietly released statement - no apology: 10

Total: 27.5

Taiwan News: CECC official Lo Yi-chun (羅一鈞) said that since April 20, there have been 7,431 persons diagnosed with COVID-19. Of these patients, 16.3 percent, or 1,209, have been deemed severe. Among patients that are 60 or older, the percent classified as seriously ill is 30.2

That's bloody high! Is Covid getting worse?

Taiwan News: CECC official Lo Yi-chun (羅一鈞) said that since April 20, there have been 7,431 persons diagnosed with COVID-19. Of these patients, 16.3 percent, or 1,209, have been deemed severe. Among patients that are 60 or older, the percent classified as seriously ill is 30.2

That's bloody high! Is Covid getting worse?

Good question. I'd like to see their definition of "seriously ill". If it means bedridden or in need of assistance to get through the day, that's bad. If it means just feeling like absolute shit, but with only a slight fever and no trouble breathing, that's different.

As a side note, a number of countries in East Asia are seeing record numbers of COVID just in the past few weeks, including Taiwan, Japan, and Malaysia. I read somewhere that pandemics naturally die out in 1.5-2 years. Of course, that's just the history of pandemics caused by pathogens that weren't engineered. The next 6-8 months will be telling.

I read somewhere that pandemics naturally die out in 1.5-2 years. Of course, that's just the history of pandemics caused by pathogens that weren't engineered. The next 6-8 months will be telling.

Here's the nightmare scenario - the bio-engineering crossed a bridge that the coronavirus (normally harmless) could never have achieved in nature. This acts like a paradigm shift for coronaviruses and aided by partially effective vaccines, it gradually becomes more and more deadly.

It finally wipes out humanity.

Better write that movie before there's no-one left to watch it.

Here's the nightmare scenario - the bio-engineering crossed a bridge that the coronavirus (normally harmless) could never have achieved in nature. This acts like a paradigm shift for coronaviruses and aided by partially effective vaccines, it gradually becomes more and more deadly.

It finally wipes out humanity.

Better write that movie before there's no-one left to watch it.

That's a brilliant premise for a movie! A nightmare scenario for reality, but it would make a great movie. And of course, some antagonist would come up with an evil solution to solve the problem they created, a solution such as putting all the rich, powerful, and as yet uninfected in 5-star bunkers and nuking the rest of the world. This would kill the virus and solve global warming!

And then, because it's a movie, a hero would emerge, probably played by Jodie Foster, or perhaps an aging Dustin Hoffman (who has been a recluse since his wife and dog both died of COVID, he now ridden with guilt for surviving), who finds an unlikely cure in the form of an amino acid found in something very common, like geckos or seaweed.

And then, because it's a movie, a hero would emerge .. who finds an unlikely cure in the form of an amino acid found in something very common, like geckos or seaweed.

Haha - i do remember you saying a long time ago the cure could be slug slime, but it would never see the light of day because it can't be patented.

But if most people are already dead then they'd probably be less worried about cures having to primarily benefit big drug company executives (who'd be dead anyway.