So there must be some signatures if it is indeed manipulated virus, some slight footprints.

Apparently there is. In August 2020, a collective of scientists on ResearchGate questioned the natural evolution theory, saying "Although based on phylogenetic analysis SARS-CoV-2 seems to be related to BatCoVs RaTG13 or RmYN02 ...(t)he host tropism pattern has major discrepancies compared to other CoVs, raising questions concerning the proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2. "

These guys don't have the mass-media mega-phone that our Proximal Origins guys had but it's a growing tide.

"I work[ed] in the WHO reference lab which is the top coronavirus lab in the world, in the University of Hong Kong. And the thing is I get deeply into such investigation in secret from the early beginning of this outbreak. I had my intelligence because I also get my own unit network in China, involved [in] the hospital ... also I work with the top corona[virus] virologist in the world," she said.

"So, together with my experience, I can tell you, this is created in the lab ... and also, it is spread to the world to make such damage."

It will take more than just her word to prove it, but she has reportedly said "more evidence will be released."

It was on Fox News, an interview with Tucker Carlson, though if it's a broadcast quote from the guest, it doesn't matter who they said it to. It's not inconceivable that she approached all the networks but none of them would have a bar of her. If evidence implicating a lab accident was to somehow come out before the election - that would be game over for Biden.

This is a key part of the problem. People hate Trump so much it's clouded their thinking. If you are always reacting to someone else then you end up barracking (Aussie speak: to cheer blindly - from soldiers - barracks - passionate about their footy) for counter-positions rather than paying attention to what's true. Are otherwise intelligent people pseudo-barracking for China in this?
I love my football team - in my mind it's an incontrovertible fact that the umpires are fucking cheats and the opposition's so called 'super-stars' are over-paid up-themselves dickheads.
But the truth is: we're sitting 17th on the ladder of 18 teams.
Sport is great for that - it's an outlet for irrational emotion that we all need as humans. But in terms of thinking about the world and taking a position - in a pivotal moment of human existence - just stick to the truth. Forget about reacting to what anyone else is saying.

Would like to see the training video for that.

You've got a way to go to catch up to the US though. Americans are unmatched when it comes to nurturing and taking pride in our dysfunctional society.

The reason: security guards assigned to the quarantine hotels for returned travelers couldn't resist bonking some of the infected patients. From there it's spread back into the community.

"The Obama administration also set up an initiative called PREDICT, a $200 million pandemic early-warning program that supported staff in 60 overseas laboratories, including in Wuhan, China. It was launched in 2009 after the 2005 H5N1 outbreak sparked global fears of an epidemic. But the Los Angeles Times reported that the Trump administration abandoned the effort two months before the new coronavirus emerged in Wuhan."

Probably just a coincidence but two months after American scientist(s) withdraw from the Wuhan Institute we have the virus...

That leads to the question of whether the reaction was a way to give these contingency plans a work out as much as it was a measured, proportionate response.

That statement is revealing. How can there be no analysis done on the likely repercussions of a strategy that is going to have massive repercussions?

No doubt later we will hear, "Oh, we didn't know! We just tried to do our best in difficult circumstances." Which will be kinda true, except the reason nobody knew is because no one wanted to know.

Money alone will not be enough, he added. It is difficult for relief workers to get through lockdowns around the world and set up air bridges when transport is paralysed. “We need money and access – not one or the other, both.”

Also crucial is ensuring that supply chains stay open in the face of lockdowns and the difficulty of getting workers into the fields to tend crops if they are sick or unable to travel easily. “If the supply chain breaks down, people can’t get food – and if they can’t get food for long enough, they will die,” said Beasley.

I don't understand it either.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/apr/21/coronavirus-pandemic-will-ca...

This is interesting: https://ponderwall.com/index.php/2020/04/18/lab-grown-coronavirus/

Interesting indeed! Also reinforces the point that there's no such thing as 'the science' on this matter. Just to identify the link, a Nobel prize winner in physiology or medicine for his work on HIV, Prof Luc Montagnier, has claimed that the virus was partially grown in a lab and the RNA contains small sequences from HIV.

He speculates that it may have been an attempt to develop an AIDS vaccine.

He also claims similar findings from other researchers have been suppressed.

I'm getting annoyed with papers like the Guardian - their obsession with Trump is colouring all their reporting. Instead of just trying to uncover the truth they seem to take reactive positions to whatever he says. (a) That's just getting sucked into his universe (b) it's bad journalism (c) if it turns out they're wrong they've handed him victory on a platter which he'll use, with great effect, to dismiss all criticisms.

The natural V lab origin debate is a good example. Not only has the Guardian championed the natural origin model but they label alternative lines of enquiry as conspiracy theories - why? Because they think it's part of the war against Trump. That's stupid and dangerous.

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Gen Mark Milley:
“There’s a lot of rumour and speculation in a wide variety of media, blog sites, etc,” Milley told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday. “It should be no surprise to you that we’ve taken a keen interest in that, and we’ve had a lot of intelligence look at that. And I would just say at this point, it’s inconclusive, although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural. But we don’t know for certain.”

Here's what we know:

1. Bats weren't sold at the seafood market
2. The kind of bat that carries corona virus doesn't live in Wuhan
3. The first known cases hadn't visited the market anyhow

(So all those scientific papers about how the virus 'probably' came from bats via pangolin via the seafood market are based on a false premise. However pointing this out seems to invoke an hysterical response amongst some scientists and journalist who label alternative analysis or even simple questions as 'conspiracy theories'.)

4. The only known bat viruses in Wuhan were held at two research institutes
5. Biosecurity at these facilities was lax. A report in the Washington Post says: "Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats."

At this point it's time to get out Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation by far is that the virus came from one of the Wuhan labs. Doesn't mean it's a fact - but it's way more likely than the seafood market premise that has absorbed so much attention and research dollars.

Unfortunately some scientists are locked into a mindset of getting grants to continue their line of research whether or not that research is of any value. In this respect they are more like lawyers representing their client whether the client is guilty or not. That's kinda understandable but it's not useful in terms of finding out exactly how this happened - and stopping it from happening again.

You are right regarding China's preparedness. Those prefab hospitals were ready to go. Why would they have a prefab hospital, not a field hospital, just sitting around?

Right at the beginning there was a report in the Taipei Times referencing French and Taiwanese researchers who concluded that the virus was 'probably' man-made and 'probably' came from the Wuhan institute.

To me that seems a highly plausible explanation. The you tube video posted presents further evidence that manipulation of existing viruses is going on quite a lot - especially at the Wuhan institute. From there there are two possibilities: 1. It accidentally escaped the lab 2. It accidentally on purpose escaped the lab

Another curious point is that 3/4 of all cases in Chinawere from Wuhan. At first I thought China was fudging the figures but now I tend to think that they did contain it by rolling out a 'ready-to-go' people-control regime that seems a bit too well-prepared to be true - unless you knew something in advance.

Finally, i'm getting more and more suspicious about WHO and China's relationship. Tedros, the Secretary General, is from Ethiopia where he used to be a government minister - Foreign Affairs minister in fact, which, considering Ethiopia is known as the 'Little China' of Africa, means he was basically Minister for China. Since the outbreak, Tedros, in lockstep with China, has made one disastrous call after another. What's going on there?
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/487851-china-and-the-whos-chief-hold-them-bot...

The anthrax event of which the other speaks is indeed factual, and the anthrax used did indeed come from the US military. That was established pretty quickly. Funny how quickly we forget about these things!

It's too bad there are no citations with this article.

One thing that strikes me about this is how it is affecting literally everybody on the planet in one form or another. And people all over the world are having similar experiences.

Yes that sticks out for me too - it's worldwide saturation of the same event at the same time with similar consequences playing out in everyone's lives.

Also good point about how climate change - actually far more serious i would have thought - cannot generate the same sort of concerted effort. Imagine if all the effort and money that goes into the virus went into urgently combatting climate change...

I'm afraid though climate change might get a back seat in terms of funding initiatives for quite a while.